Curse

Kusandaa · May 10, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

I love both PvE and PvP. The problem I have had with PvP was stated earlier in the thread:

I dont take issue with the statement that PvP requires more skill than PvE. It does. PvE on the other hand requires a bit more experience with PvE to learn tendencies and the ways to defeat an area as quickly as possible (assuming no UB and consumables), as well as some knowledge of builds more effective in certain areas etc.

What I do take issue with is try and go into any PvP setting and announce yourself as still learning PvP. Heck, dont even announce it. They'll figure that out soon enough. Take stock of what they then say. Do the same in a PvE setting and see what happens.

You'll notice the difference in attitude. Its even present here in this thread.

It's called arrogance, that's what it is. It's the issue I have with a good couple PVPers... arrogance. And yes, it's present in this thread. This way to always turn stuff against the other person: "it's your fault if you feel insulted; go play Sims instead". I'm sorry, but this is a pretty arrogant thing. No no, it's not the fault of the guy who insulted, but the other's fault that he did. Mmkay.

Go ahead and tell you you're new at PVP. "lol pve scrub". But no, it's my fault for feeling arrogance coming from that guy.

But in all honesty, I've seen the same thing happen with PVEers.

The difference is that there is a double standard, from what I see. If you're a PvEer and you get trashed talked by a PvPer, it means you suck. If you're a PvEer trash talking PvPers, you still suck.

Then again I'm talking about the general community, and not everyone. But there's a load of arrogance... on both sides.

And I like neither. Doubt I'm the only one on this forum.

Avarre · May 10, 2008, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Res Ipsi

A matter of opinion. I can't speak for others who play this game, but my playing PvE exclusively does not make me an "incomplete player". I am good at the style I choose to play - it doesn't automatically mean I'd suck at playing another. I lack experience at PvP, not "skill".

A player with experience in all areas of the game is going to have a lot more experience. This experience is going to translate into skill. Specifically, with regards to tactical play, game sense, and reactiveness, PvP is going to add a lot of that skill, simply because PvE doesn't punish mistakes as heavily and hence doesn't force as much improvement. You haven't played PvP by your own admission, so how can you make statements of any sort regarding the nature of PvP?

I learned more about gameplay in my first month of GvG than I did in my first year of PvE. When the principle of the game is to punish enemy mistakes, you have to learn not to do anything exploitable.

Quote:

No, I'm saying that without assessing the abilities of every PvE player out there, your statement that only PvP players are skilled is based on arrogance, not fact. I just find it odd that some PvP players feel the need to belittle the playing abilities of everyone who chooses to play PvE - not because we suck at PvP, but because we prefer a different play style.

You made the bolded up. The line you were replying to stated that the best PvP players were most skilled than the best PvE players, not that PvE players have no skill.

The fact that the best PvP players have more skill than everyone else, PvE or PvP, isn't really disputable. Again, if you have played extensively in all areas, this would be apparent.

Quote:

The mindless antics of PvE mobs is compensated for by their overpowered skills and sheer numbers.

Speaking from experience at both group/farm PvE and top 50 GvG, no it is not.

Monk In The Box · May 10, 2008, 03:03 PM // 15:03

PvE is patience and skill.
PvP is feel.

Trub · May 10, 2008, 03:19 PM // 15:19

PvE: The beauty and learning areas. (STILL my favorite, for I am one for the looks and exploring.)
PvP: The next level into the game......
AFTER you have learned the skills, weapons, armors, guild structures...ect.
PvP players ARE the most experienced players in the game...they have already completed the first part (PvE) to gain the knowledge they needed to go higher in the game.
Don't get me wrong, but all I'm saying is.....PvP players are better at most aspects of the game. (Because they have already completed step 1: PvE)
And I love having a few of them come into the guild hall and chat in between matches, and do some 'hard Core' PvE with me.
*hugs-n-cookies*

Res Ipsi · May 10, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You haven't played PvP by your own admission, so how can you make statements of any sort regarding the nature of PvP?

Actually, that's not quite true. I did quite a bit (HA and GvG) for a time, but found those environments more stale than PvE. The flexibility in builds, and the variety I was looking for just wasn't there. As to PvP experience generalizing to better PvE skill; basic skills like kiting, prioritizing targets, anticipating spikes, using the terrain, weapon swapping - these can be learned in both PvE and PvP; albiet the learning curve in PvP is much steeper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You made the bolded up. The line you were replying to stated that the best PvP players were most skilled than the best PvE players, not that PvE players have no skill.

I shouldn't have quoted your specific comment to make my point - but the message has been quite explicitly stated in other posts. It's the general "PvE players suxxors" that I (and many other PvE'rs) take exception to.

Stockholm · May 10, 2008, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

There is allways someone better than you outthere
Why do you not understand this?

Accept it and move on

There fixed it for you.

Tamuril elansar · May 10, 2008, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Imperial

I've seen top PvP players fail at Urgoz Warren Elite Mission.(this is going the old way not with ursan.) So how can they be better than other players?

because ''top pve players'' have done urgoz warren 650million times while top pvp players 1/2 times.

rohara · May 10, 2008, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Imperial

I've seen top PvP players fail at Urgoz Warren Elite Mission.(this is going the old way not with ursan.) So how can they be better than other players?

my old far-from-top-play pvp guild blew through urgoz faster than any pug i've ever been in. that was 3 of us with heroes, btw, and before ursan even existed. just because one pvp player failed doesn't mean they all fail at pve. exaggerate much?

besides, urgoz is the type of place where simply going in with a bad build or not knowing where the popups are = fail.

this whole thread is full of exaggerations and stereotypes.

for example...pvp players are not all mean, arrogant, etc. top gvg players are usually happy to come guest for your guild and give advice, or will answer questions if you pm them. if you you meet them with resistance, well then...you're probably not worth their time and you won't see them again. don't ask for help if you really don't want it - you'll never get better if you don't recognize your errors and correct them. everybody makes mistakes, and criticism is part of the learning process.

they are the most skilled players in the game and do have a little room to pat themselves on the back. if you've never truly played a game competitively, you just wouldn't understand.

razuel · May 10, 2008, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Let me rephrase the statement. The majority of PvPers I run into are mean and not willing to help teach.

I have experience in PvP in other games, but this game is unique in that it's very team-based unlike D2 for example. It's hard to get into without help.

~ Dan ~ · May 10, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Imperial

I've seen top PvP players fail at Urgoz Warren Elite Mission.(this is going the old way not with ursan.) So how can they be better than other players?

I'd bet the rest of their PvE orientated team failed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

I see no proof of them being the best. Since you have never witnessed every single pve monk I guess you have no idea what you are talking about. I could spout names too.

The ones who haven't been witnessed are obviously not good enough to get on observe. End of discussion.

Quote:

Master Rhys Mason is the greatest monk of all time, better than any pvp monk.

Please prove that wrong.

Who the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO is he? (i think that's proof enough, nobodies are nobodies)

Musei Karasu · May 10, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Debating the difference between PvE and PvP is like debating the difference between writing a research paper and being in front line combat here. Writing a research paper requires the effort to research your subject matter, just like in PvE you research the enemies you'll be against, and you will know exactly how they react. Being in a combat zone is different, you try and gather what information you can, but when it comes down to it, you're fighting against someone with no rules in play.

PvE requires the skills to research your enemy, so that you don't encounter an enemy that you don't have a way to combat. PvP requires you to move quickly and respond on the spot, something everyone here is calling "skill". I play monk in both PvE and PvP. Playing the infuse monk in a GvG match requires every scrap of my attention and reaction. It requires me to focus every last bit of myself to the match. I can miss an infuse just because the phone rings or someone in my house calls my name. PvE I can hold a conversation and monk at the same time, but only because I equip my heroes and teammates with the correct skills to combat the enemies I know will be there.

Savio · May 10, 2008, 06:25 PM // 18:25

This is a discussion about differences between PvE and PvP, not a "why I hate people who play PvE/PvP". Continual trolling will not be tolerated.

Red Sonya · May 10, 2008, 06:37 PM // 18:37

PVE doesn't stand for casual or low level entertainment or even rank of an individual. PVE stands for PLAYER VS ENVIRONMENT. After that there are many levels of players and each individuals players level of entertainment, fun, challenge even competitiveness in their rank in that community. There are no such things as scrubs or idiots except to those that actually are one themselves and gives those kinds of titles to others because of their inferority complexes. They are the more inferior type than the normal average joe that plays these types of games for FUN and ENTERTAINMENT foist and foremost.

Sorry hardcore players but you do not rule the world here (notice the changes we are getting lately?)

. You need to go back to gradeschool and learn how to play well with others, not boss them around or tell them they are idiots and scrubs because they don't play like you do.

Nothing on the box advertised anyone had to be perfect or even TRY to obtain perfection or experience or be as good as the next person. Most of the hardcore players made up those rules themselves trying to take over the sandbox just like back in gradeschool. I've also run into a lot of those types within the game who talked about how great and good they were and everyone can talk a "I'm better than you" story, but, doesn't always mean it's true and I've seen it in action to not be true in PUGS and PVP both. A lot of people THINK they are good, but, haha 99% of them are just average like the rest of us.

Alex Morningstar · May 10, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

PvP doesn't take skill, it takes cookie cutter builds that their pugs can play because no one plays anymore. Skill left the equation around the same time WM/EviL/etc left. Sure, some people have skill, but also some people ebay their rank.

PvE is the same. Cookie cutter it and you'll win.

For as different as the two are, some things are the exact same.

Both sides have morons. Both sides have a debatable level of skill supposedly involved. Both any retard with more than 1 hand can play.

around · May 10, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

PvP doesn't take skill, it takes cookie cutter builds that their pugs can play because no one plays anymore. Skill left the equation around the same time WM/EviL/etc left. Sure, some people have skill, but also some people ebay their rank.

Why aren't you in top 100 then with your wiki build?

Red Sonya · May 10, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

The flexibility in builds, and the variety I was looking for just wasn't there.

I think this says it best when defining the difference between PVE and PVP. In several types of the socalled elite PVP the flexibility in builds and variety just isn't there. You can see it in most of the PVP crowds post that they want the holy trinity balanced build groups in GvG/HOH play. Lord knows what the HA players want that single player an his heroes mess. lol Now, AB and RA and FA tend to allow variety and flexibility (they really have no choice as two of the three are random anyways), but, the hardcore PVP crowd does not accept AB, Ra or FA as a PVP class which is quite funny since all 3 are player vs players.

Heck even in your GvG matches you have PVE play as those are NPC's you are killing for the final victory aren't they? LORD anyone?

I find it funny that winning a high end GvG PVP match of what is socalled the highest standard of PVP involves killing an AI NPC LORD....now i don't know of another PVP game online that i've played that has that kind of silliness for elite PVP victory. There shouldn't be any Lords or NPC's at all it should be to the last man or the most kills in a number of minutes or the team that caps the most flags. GvG PVP is really a laughable joke when victory comes from killing an AI NPC LORD.

maraxusofk · May 10, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

wish people would really stop saying ha takes pvp skill. the only real form of pvp is gvg.

DreamWind · May 10, 2008, 09:30 PM // 21:30

I hope Anet is happy. They made this happen and now are trying to do damage control with recent terrible updates. Just watch.

bhavv · May 10, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Skill is about how you play, not where you play. The people who have just come into online gaming and think that Guild Wars is the best PVP ever in any game have a long way to go.

Exactly.

People playing IWAY and Vimway all day every day back when it worked and getting R9+ were not skillied.

I reckon 75% of R9+ players got there with skill less grind builds.

Lots of stuff in PVE (without Ursan mind you) is far more challenging and requires more skill then (some) PVP does.

HuntMaster Avatar · May 10, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~ Dan ~

I'd bet the rest of their PvE orientated team failed it.

The ones who haven't been witnessed are obviously not good enough to get on observe. End of discussion.

Who the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO is he? (i think that's proof enough, nobodies are nobodies)

Well then I guess the people that have been meantioned fall under that catagory as well because I'v never heard nor seen them. So nobodies are nobodies. Thats proof enough they are not the best as you said.

And Rhys has never been defeated in pvp nor has his team ever lost.

His teammates also have never died while he was healing in pve. When you figure out why you havnt seen him you will figure out why I used him as an exsample.

No one is the best. There is always someone better.